Talk:Dithmarschen

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The Dithmarschen is certainly an interesting topic, and I'm grateful to have found it covered here. However, without knowing the particular details about these particular years, I wonder if the wording isn't a left-over from the Nationalist history-writing of the 1850s:

Several times noblemen and their mercenaries tried to subdue the independent mini state, but without any success. In 1500 the greatest of these battles took place, the Battle of Hemmingstedt, where the largely outnumbering army of Denmark was defeated by the peasants. It was not until 1559, that the peasants had to surrender to Danish superiority.

Maybe "Denmark" here rather ought to be the Duchy of Holstein, which from the mid-15th century to great extent was in personal union with Denmark? I believe History of Schleswig-Holstein, with its faults, gives a fairly correct although sparse relation of the relations between Denmark and the twin-duchies. I suspect that the direction of power and influence in the year 1500 rather was from the German duchy of Holstein to Denmark, than the other way.
-- Ruhrjung 07:53 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Somewhat difficult now, as it was some months ago, that I wrote this article. There is one english language source at http://www.bauer-und-bonde.de/english/history.html, and I looked at the website of the Dithmarschen district (http://www.dithmarschen.de), where you can find a very comprehensive depiction of that event. According to these sources (which I trusted, since I am not a historian) the army was led by the Danish king John and his brother Friedrich of Holstein. I don't know for sure, where these soldiers came from (probably from what is now Denmark AND from Holstein). But I don't think, that the Dithmarschen district website writes anything from a nationalist point of view, and I have absolutely no intention to do so. When I write "Denmark", I mean Denmark in the borders of 1500, which included Holstein, Norway and Sweden (by personal union) - so I don't think, that we actually have a disagreement about the content, or do we? -- Cordyph 16:09 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)

However, Denmark of year 1500 didn't include Schleswig or Holstein, nor Norway or Sweden. As you write, it was a personal union, not (yet) any attempted annexation. All were separate, signified by own sets of laws, separate Privy Councils (denoted "Councils of the Realms" for Denmark, Norway and Sweden), and Diets of their own.

See also: Talk:Battle of Hemmingstedt
Best regards!
-- Ruhrjung 10:01 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)