Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies

The following discussions are requested to have community-wide attention:

Is the following or a similar phrasing and sourcing due and appropriate for inclusion:

She participated in the Gaza war protests and called Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip "genocide."^[1] Hadid stated that she and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance, saying: "I've been sent hundreds of death threats daily, my phone number has been leaked, and my family has felt to be in danger. But I can not be silenced any longer. Fear is not an option."^[2] In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu",^[3] which called for her death.^[4]^[5]

FortunateSons (talk) 15:23, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Justin Barrett

Should he be called a conspiracy theorist in the lead? 2A02:810D:BC82:1E00:F5E7:6D91:BE2:85B7 (talk) 12:06, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Imran Khan

There is ongoing disagreement over whether the article should include the newly-added section titled "Relationship with the military" as it currently does. Both the relevance of the content and the appropriateness of presenting it in a standalone section under "Public image" are being contested. This issue was previously discussed above and could not be resolved at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard, and it has now been directed here for broader input.

Should the article include a section on "Relationship with the military"? Titan2456 (talk) 23:17, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Asmongold

The previous RfC was closed as no consensus to include or exclude his name. Eight months later, at least a dozen new sources have used his full name.

Should Asmongold's full name be included in the article? --03:54, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography

Should the provision MOS:POSTNOM (under WP:MOSBIO) that allows post-nominal letters only outside the LEAD SENTENCE be overturned, maintained, or modified? Specifically, the guideline currently reads: "When the subject of an article has received honours or appointments issued either by the subject's state of citizenship or residence, or by a widely recognized organization that reliable sources regularly associate with the subject, post‐nominal letters may be included in any part of the article other than the lead sentence." Obviously, this RfC would also invite alternative solutions, etc. I will add options if so-requested. As such;

Option 1: Full Reversal of the Exclusion
- Overturn the existing guideline entirely so that post‐nominal letters may be included in the lead sentence. Order will be determined by awarding-nation's order of precedence (I.e. the higher-ranking award is listed first after the name). If one award is from one nation, and the second award is from another nation, list them in chronological order of receipt (assuming they do not recognize each other, such as Commonwealth awards).
Option 2: Maintain MOS:POSTNOM As-Is
- Maintain existing guidelines.
Option 3: Conditional Inclusion Based on Infobox Presence
- Allow post‐nominal letters in the lead sentence only when an infobox is absent. If an article provides an infobox, then post‐nominals should be confined there (with full details in the body text OTHER THAN THE LEAD SENTENCE).
Option 4: Partial Inclusion with Limits
- Allow a limited number of post‐nominal letters (for example, one or two of the most important honors) to remain in the lead sentence, with any extra post‐nominals moved into the infobox or detailed in the article body. Order will be determined by awarding-nation's order of precedence (I.e. the higher-ranking award is listed first). If one award is from one nation, and the second award is from another nation, list them in order of receipt (assuming they do not recognize each other, such as Commonwealth awards).
Option 5: Open-Ended Policy
- Refrain from requiring or excluding post-nominals within the guidelines. Refrain from limiting the number of post-nominals in either the lead, body, or infobox. Require consensus on an article-by-article basis on their relevant Talk pages (if-so required).

AGAIN, THIS PERTAINS TO THE LEAD SENTENCE OF AN ARTICLE.

EDIT: the order of precedence stuff can probably be ignored.
EDIT 2: For transparency, I have attempted to manually ping each participant in the original discussion. I apologize if I missed you, it was a long discussion and my thumbs and eyes grow weary.

This RfC invites discussion on whether excluding post‐nominals from the lead remains justified, or if a revision is warranted given concerns about clarity, consistency, and the conveyance of useful information. The original discussion was not an RfC proper, and as such, I have taken it upon myself to start one. The discussion was productive enough that I feel it warranted an RfC. This is my first RfC, so, I apologize in advance for any mistakes.

MWFwiki (talk) 00:10, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons

This RfC proposes improving the wording of the existing WP:BLPCRIME policy. The intent is not to change the policy or principles. The goal is to make the guidance clearer and easier to apply. Below is the current wording followed by the proposed revision.

Current version

A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations, arrests and charges do not amount to a conviction. For individuals who are not public figures—that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures—editors must seriously consider not including material^[a]—in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured for that crime.

If different judicial proceedings result in seemingly contradictory outcomes that do not overrule each other,^[b] include sufficient explanatory information.

Proposed version

A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations, arrests, and charges do not amount to a conviction. For individuals who are not public figures—that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures—editors must seriously consider not including material^[a]—in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of committing a crime, unless a conviction has been secured. If different judicial proceedings result in seemingly contradictory outcomes that do not overrule each other,^[c] sufficient explanatory information should be included.

When deciding whether to name a living or recently deceased person in connection with a crime, editors should assess the stage of proceedings as a spectrum: person of interest < arrested < charged < on trial < convicted. The earlier the stage, the higher the threshold for inclusion. Names should rarely be included for persons of interest. For convicted individuals, names are generally appropriate unless exceptional circumstances apply. For intermediate stages, editors must carefully weigh factors such as the extent and quality of reliable sourcing, whether the subject is a minor, and the person’s public status.

Please comment below. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 15:30, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Pope Leo XIV/RFC: Date format

Hi there, I've created this RfC as the equivalent discussion(s) on the talk page have gotten completely-out-of-hand. I'm pretty neutral on the matter but leaning towards DMY as his role as pope transcends beyond the MDY format of America to the DMY format of the Church, Vatican, and arguably the world. However, I will add a summary below of some of the main arguments that were popping up on the talk page. Thanks, JacobTheRox (talk) 21:27, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Anthony Fauci

Shall we summarize the pardon in the WP:LEAD?

See diff and text:

On January 20, 2025, President Biden granted Fauci a Federal pardon.^[6]^[7]

Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 10:23, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Jared Taylor

How should Jared Taylor's views on Trump's racial beliefs be reflected in the article:

Option 1: "Taylor has said that he doesn't believe Trump is an white supremacist or a "secret race realist." Saying that he thinks Trump has "healthy reactions" to legal and illegal immigration and that Trump's racial views make him a better alternative than his political opponents."^[8]^[9]^[10]^[11]
Option 2: Propose what you think would be appropriate.
Option 3: No addition.

Please indicate which option you support.Rja13ww33 (talk) 21:29, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

Should this article include information about Zsa Zsa Gabor's possible relationship with Mustafa Kemal Ataturk?

Do not include any information.
Include as a claim attributed to Zsa Zsa Gabor.
Include in Wikivoice that the relationship occurred.

This statement was added after the RfC began to satisfy WP:RFCNEUTRAL and WP:RFCBRIEF. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 19:58, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference namerfc was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ For example, O. J. Simpson was acquitted in 1995 of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, but was later found liable for their wrongful deaths in a civil trial.
^ For example, O. J. Simpson was acquitted in 1995 of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, but was later found liable for their wrongful deaths in a civil trial.

^ "Adidas drops Bella Hadid from campaign referencing 1972 Munich Olympics". Al Jazeera. July 19, 2024.
^ Zhan, Jennifer (October 26, 2023). "Bella Hadid Says Palestine 'Cannot Afford Our Silence'". Vulture.
^ Fiske, Gavriel (November 21, 2023). "Hip-hop war anthem reaches number one in Israel". The Times of Israel. Archived from the original on December 2, 2023.
^ Zitser, Joshua (December 12, 2023). "Israel's Gen Z is dancing to a war song that celebrates bombing Gaza and names Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid as enemies". Business Insider.
^ "Israel split by song calling for death of Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid". The Times. February 14, 2024.
^ Baker, Peter (2025-01-20). "Biden in Final Hours Pardons Cheney, Fauci and Milley to Thwart Reprisals". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2025-01-20.
^ Liptak, Kevin; Saenz, Arlette (2025-01-20). "Biden issues preemptive pardons for Milley, Fauci and Jan. 6 committee members | CNN Politics". CNN. Retrieved 2025-01-20.
^ Beauchamp, Zack (21 November 2016). "A leading white nationalist says it plainly: Trump's victory was about white identity". Vox.
^ Ross, Janell (November 12, 2016). "Trump win spawns fear and loathing among people he disparaged and alienated". The Washington Post. Retrieved April 28, 2025.
^ "Video: Jared Taylor: Whites Deserve a Homeland". March 21, 2017. see at about 26:18
^ Ganim, Sara; Welch, Chris (January 16, 2017). "Hail Trump? White nationalists already losing faith in President-elect". CNN. Retrieved April 28, 2025.

[namerfc-6] Cite error: The named reference namerfc was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[7] For example, O. J. Simpson was acquitted in 1995 of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, but was later found liable for their wrongful deaths in a civil trial.

[8] For example, O. J. Simpson was acquitted in 1995 of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, but was later found liable for their wrongful deaths in a civil trial.

[1] "Adidas drops Bella Hadid from campaign referencing 1972 Munich Olympics". Al Jazeera. July 19, 2024.

[2] Zhan, Jennifer (October 26, 2023). "Bella Hadid Says Palestine 'Cannot Afford Our Silence'". Vulture.

[3] Fiske, Gavriel (November 21, 2023). "Hip-hop war anthem reaches number one in Israel". The Times of Israel. Archived from the original on December 2, 2023.

[4] Zitser, Joshua (December 12, 2023). "Israel's Gen Z is dancing to a war song that celebrates bombing Gaza and names Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid as enemies". Business Insider.

[5] "Israel split by song calling for death of Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid". The Times. February 14, 2024.

[9] Baker, Peter (2025-01-20). "Biden in Final Hours Pardons Cheney, Fauci and Milley to Thwart Reprisals". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2025-01-20.

[10] Liptak, Kevin; Saenz, Arlette (2025-01-20). "Biden issues preemptive pardons for Milley, Fauci and Jan. 6 committee members | CNN Politics". CNN. Retrieved 2025-01-20.

[11] Beauchamp, Zack (21 November 2016). "A leading white nationalist says it plainly: Trump's victory was about white identity". Vox.

[12] Ross, Janell (November 12, 2016). "Trump win spawns fear and loathing among people he disparaged and alienated". The Washington Post. Retrieved April 28, 2025.

[13] "Video: Jared Taylor: Whites Deserve a Homeland". March 21, 2017. see at about 26:18

[14] Ganim, Sara; Welch, Chris (January 16, 2017). "Hail Trump? White nationalists already losing faith in President-elect". CNN. Retrieved April 28, 2025.

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